Casino-Twist

Why can’t New York be sued to allow poker, like the state of California was sued? Poker was deemed a game of skill, not chance–hence it wasn’t considered gambling and poker was opened up in California. Since a precedent was set in California law, why can’t we use it in New York? There must be some poker loving lawyer that can sue the state pro bono for the good of all poker players in New York. If I don’t use the Mayfair Club, I have to schlep to AC or Foxwoods–for
the extra few hours by plane, I can be in Vegas!

Answer 1:

John’s lawyer was asked why he didn’t site California law deeming poker a skill game . . . he shrugged it off.  He never bothered to look up legal cases in other states.  He blew it.

Answer 2:

Because that’s not what happened in California.   The California lawsuit was about the California statute, which did not actually outlaw poker.  The New York statutes have a very different language.

Answer 3:

John’s lawyer also showed up for the initial hearing (after the club was closed a few weeks ago) an hour and a half late.  No phone call to the judge.  No announcement of any kind.  He casually strolled in after the parties were assembled and had been waiting and announced “Sorry, I got stuck in traffic.” The idiot should have been sued for malpractice. It wasn’t the merits of the case, or lack thereof that cost Diamond Club representatives the chance to get a ruling in its favor.  It was poor legal representation, plain and simple.

Been playing poker for a few years now. Sometime I win & sometimes I lose. I’ve heard about pot odds & how it makes a difference on whether or not you should call a bet. I really don’t understand the concept. In fact I have NEVER considered pot odds when playing poker. Are pot odds that important?  If I never consider the odds the pot is giving me, am I doomed? Where can I learn about the fundamentals of pot odds?

Answer 1:

The basic idea of pot odds: Say you are about a 4:1 dog to make your hand and that if you do so, you’ll win the pot. If the pot holds four times the amount you need to bet, you bet is “correct,”
that is, if you make that bet every time the same situation arises, you will break even in the long run. One out of four times, you hand will get there and you’ll get your money back. Thus, if there is more than four times your bet, you are making money in the long run if you act similarly every time. Without this kind of mathematical analysis, one ends up making calls on “feel.” While this can be lucrative for some, it probably isn’t great for beginners. You might get bluffed off pots but not winning those is far better than losing more by making calls not warranted by the odds.

Answer 2:

Well, it’s pretty simple-#1 if the pot is big, and if the cost to win the pot is low then the pot odds is good!  #2 if the pot is small, and the cost of win is great then the pot odds are bad.  #3 Always play when the pot odds are good and throw away when the pot odds are bad—thus ended the lesson of poker for today!

Answer 3:

Having read (probably way too many) books, which go into intricate and painful detail computing pot odds, your one paragraph answer to this guy pretty much sums it all up. Don’t take this the wrong way, however, I found it quite amusing. Sometimes (often) we tend to over analyze things to the point of making simple things much more complicated than they are.

What you wrote is, IMHO, exactly right. Painted with a broad stroke, to be sure – but correct none the less. I wonder how significant the difference would really be (in profit), if we just looked at it from the “wide angle view” vs. drilling down into the minute detail of calculations, suggested by the authors.

You been playing twenty-six hours straight, but only twenty-odd hours in this game, 25-50 blinds PLH, you got fifty-one thousand, four hundred twenty-two in front of you,  and you *LOOK* like a stone *zombie* except miraculously, you have not only been running *real* lucky but you’re also playing like *GOD* – as in, playing with ‘em face up – now four-handed, and the *other* three aren’t buying the act anymore <smile>, you’re 50 big blind, 3d man passes, button – an *action* guy with whom you’ve played a *LOT*, and thru the grace of God you’ve always seemed to get the better of <smile> for LOTS of money – makes it 200 to go, sb passes.  You look down, find K-K, check button’s stack of about fifteen thousand [Christ, where'd he get *that* much <smile>, he's only been here since 11:48 a.m. and he's *stuck*] so you give him action as a courtesy and make it 400 to go.  He calls. Flop comes 8-6-2 rainbow.  You check, he bets 500, you of course check-raise him 1,500 more.  He calls. Turn card comes another 8.  Aieee-yaaaa!  You check, he bets ya 3,500.  (The threat, of course, being that you already raised once out of position, and then check-raised him for a total of two thousand, the guy, *BELIEVE ME*, does *not* think you’re an idiot … <smile> ….

I threw it away, and was so depressed that I got up and quit. Whaddaya think, fellas?

Answer 1:

correct answer is always “it depends” *BUT* ya got to know upon what it depends <smile> – forgot to include that the possibility of the button having 8-8-, 6-6 or 2-2 (i.e. flopping a set) is zero – ya hadda be* there, but *trust me* – and stop and think about it, he already figures – other than a stone action play, which I *aren’t* making, out of the big blind – that I’ve got a big hand.  So, obviously, if he flops a *set*, where a possibility is 9-7 straight-draw and if I’m an *idiot* I’m going’ for it, right? So he did *NOT* flop a set.

Answer 2:

If he put you on a big hand, as you say he did, then he’s either a complete maniac or he’s value betting an even bigger hand. You say he’s an action player, so he probably figures he can bet big hands and get called, right? You made a good fold. Put the $3,500 when you want to put it in.

Answer 3:

You’re not really worried about the eight, are you?  The hand you’re worried about is A-A.  If he has this, you’re toast.  If he has Q-Q, J-J, T-T or if he’s busting a move, then you’re a winner.  I guess you simply have to try to figure out the probability. You said he was an action player… with absolutely no further knowledge of him, I guess I’d stick in to the end.  A sensible player would play Q-Q approximately the same way as A-A in that situation. I don’t mind getting KK beaten by AA once in a while… I’d rather err on the side of playing my big hands strongly and getting thrashed by the occasional even bigger hand, than underplay it or throw it away too often. Sometimes people slow play me by checking and calling with a straight flush while I’ve got top set.  But later on I’m raising it up with a marginal hand that I know is a winner.  The action I get easily pays for their occasional luck.

I heard a new 8/16 holdem game goes around the clock at Canterbary Park with unbelievable action. Does anyone know about it?

Answer 1:

I was at Canterbury Park about a week ago and they did not have the 8- 16 game going when I was there (Thursday night and Friday afternoon). They did have a 6-12 and a 10-20 going, though.  I played in the 10-20 Thurs. night and the action was fair to good as I booked a modest $150 win in a couple of hours.

Answer 2:

I was out there last night, and the 8/16 was going strong all night.

As for “unbelievable action” I don’t know.  I railed the game a little, and didn’t find the action to be any more or less than any other game out there.   Of course it changes with the players, so YMMV.

Answer 3:

Heard similar comments from a woman used to California rooms when I was in the game a couple of weeks ago. I rank myself a fair to middling’ Omaha8 player and some of the hands I saw played to showdown were things I wouldn’t have played (not that *means* anything…). I can usually get $1-200 out of that game but ran into a run of cold cards and the game tightened up significantly. Got into a $2-6 Hold ‘Em game and finished up a rack.